dropping prices for used amps? – Page 2 – Gearspace.com
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Bstapper
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Originally Posted by
And yet fail to recognize that loudspeaker technology has improved to the point that live sound microphones have been completely redesigned to better accommodate the improved performance of sound systems.
Nothing, that’s what. And the staple live mics are, for the most part, the same mics that were in use in the late ’70s and ’80s, with the exception that some of the mics from then are no longer available and there has been something of an influx of studio microphones onto the live stage. The major innovation in live sound mics is the advent of neodymium magnets (which only date to the mid ’80s) which provide increased level, albeit very often at the expense of sound quality. And the advent of “sculpted” kick drum mics, which make the assumption the the live sound engineer is incapable of EQ his own mics. Which is a step backwards IMO.
I also dispute the assertion that the current line array systems are in any way sonically better than traditional point source systems, although they do offer increased convenience in transportation and setup which makes them more economical to operate. And they offer digital pattern control, again at the expense of sound quality.
It’s the same old story – convenience and economics over quality.
(I do have to give JBL props for their differential drive speakers, the first real innovation in driver design since Jim Lansing designed the first modern loudspeakers and compression drivers back in the ’40s. Interestingly enough I actually had the idea for differential drive back in the late ’70s when I was working for FM but did not have the resources or connections top attempt to develop it beyond a basic paper sketch.)
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It’s all fun and games to suggest someone take out a bunch of Crown DC series amplifiers until they have to run everything off of a couple of 20-amp circuits.
The fact is, a rack of DC300As and BGW 750s will actually put out more continuous power than a Class D rig with equal or greater paper specs – because the class D amps are rated in burst power, not continuous (rms) power. It’s kinda like the old “instantaneous peak power” ratings of the ’60s before the FTC instituted their regulations on power amp rating – which are sadly no longer in effect due to government deregulation.
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How many folks back in those days were using in-ear monitors?
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Or personal monitor mixers?
ers? None. Mixes? lots.
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Or had instant recall for different venues and lineups?
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Things have improved to the point where even the average garage band’s PA system has processing for every channel, whether they should use it or not.
And it removes the element of choice in system design for those who do know how to use it.
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Most MI level powered loudspeakers have built-in DSP.
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What the kids have today is groundbreaking when compared to the garbage that was available to the average bar band back in the day.
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I grew up with a pair of vintage U-47’s. I’m not embarrassed. I’m also not impressed that 40 years ago you did something with sound systems. Cool story, bro.
Thanks,
Brock
I hate it. Not the playing, the not working.
* – there’s a story from a few years back when the digital consoles were taking over the touring industry about The Beach Boys. They were doing full scale rehearsals for a new tour and had s top level sound guy come in to set up and tweak out their system. After he got it down they asked him to dump it all to a USB key, then they fired him and hired a young green kid for 1/4 the pay to run the system off the pro’s saved USB settings.
What does speaker technology have to do with microphones?Nothing, that’s what. And the staple live mics are, for the most part, the same mics that were in use in the late ’70s and ’80s, with the exception that some of the mics from then are no longer available and there has been something of an influx of studio microphones onto the live stage. The major innovation in live sound mics is the advent of neodymium magnets (which only date to the mid ’80s) which provide increased level, albeit very often at the expense of sound quality. And the advent of “sculpted” kick drum mics, which make the assumption the the live sound engineer is incapable of EQ his own mics. Which is a step backwards IMO.I also dispute the assertion that the current line array systems are in any way sonically better than traditional point source systems, although they do offer increased convenience in transportation and setup which makes them more economical to operate. And they offer digital pattern control, again at the expense of sound quality.It’s the same old story – convenience and economics over quality.(I do have to give JBL props for their differential drive speakers, the first real innovation in driver design since Jim Lansing designed the first modern loudspeakers and compression drivers back in the ’40s. Interestingly enough I actually had the idea for differential drive back in the late ’70s when I was working for FM but did not have the resources or connections top attempt to develop it beyond a basic paper sketch.)Ya think? I never had any problems with that. And the Class AB amps have a built-in power reserve which the typical Class D amps do not, which means that to get the specified power out of typical prosumer/small venue Class D amps you really need to provide each amp/powered speaker with its own 15 to 20 amp circuit. Otherwise you get seriously compromised performance and degraded sound quality, particularly in the low end. The amp will still run and it probably won’t trip the breaker but you won’t get rated power. I’ve gone into this issue at length before, not going to elaborate now.The fact is, a rack of DC300As and BGW 750s will actually put out morepower than a Class D rig with equal or greater paper specs – because the class D amps are rated in burst power, not continuous (rms) power. It’s kinda like the old “instantaneous peak power” ratings of the ’60s before the FTC instituted their regulations on power amp rating – which are sadly no longer in effect due to government deregulation.Nobody. (I’m not a big fan of in-ears, but to each his own.)Mixs? None. Mixes? lots.A GOOD engineer doesn’t need that. And IMO that’s responsible for at least some of the lowering of standards in sound quality. Every venue is different. Every show is different unless you’re doing one of the computerized choreographed shows with every little thing pre-planned and zero spontaneity and backing tracks for half the music. All that is a BAD thing, not a good thing.*Selling points, but do these bands need that stuff? No, they don’t. Do they know how to use it? Again, no.And it removes the element of choice in system design for those who do know how to use it.And really need it to attempt to compensate for the sub-standard components, cabinets, and amplification in most of those. That’s not to say they’re all bad but most are. My JBL PRX 815s are pretty nice, but, being Harmon Professional products they have amplification by Crown and processing by dbx. Not to mention the JBL differential drive speakers. Most of the other companies in the market can’t come close.Actually, other than the unfortunate fact that I’m too old and infirm to hump gear anymore, I’ll take the stuff I was running in clubs in the ’80s and ’90s over today’s stuff in a hot minute. The new stuff, with a few exceptions Just-Isn’t-As-Good. It’s nowhere near as loud, it’s not as clean, it seriously lacks dynamic range, and the low end isn’t really there. And most of it isn’t durable – and when it breaks it’s generally not field serviceable. There’s no way I could mix a band like Metallica, Megadeth, or Johnny Thunders and the Heartbreakers through the kind of junk most clubs have today. Those “modern” powered speakers would go *POOT* and emit the magic blue smoke!FWIW I was working up until 2007, when I came down with congestive heart failure and was told by my doctors in no uncertain terms that I was not to lift anything over 30 pounds. Since then I’ve done sporadic mixing work and was Technical Director for a small series of punk rock mini festivals, but mostly I can’t work at anything other than playing anymore.I hate it. Not the playing, the not working.* – there’s a story from a few years back when the digital consoles were taking over the touring industry about The Beach Boys. They were doing full scale rehearsals for a new tour and had s top level sound guy come in to set up and tweak out their system. After he got it down they asked him to dump it all to a USB key, then they fired him and hired a young green kid for 1/4 the pay to run the system off the pro’s saved USB settings.
